Ok i will start this off with a topic close to my heart...

Titans grip. Overpowered? or just an easy to use damage dealer?

Personally after recent experiences i can see why Titans Grip may be considered overpowered but is nerfing ALL damage by 10% not overkill? especially when almost all other classes will be getting nice buffs in the upcomming patch.

I personally stand to lose anywhere up to 500 dps from this nerf. For the most part i cannot see where i am so far ahead of everyone else. I know on occasion i can have a lucky string of crts and do some pretty staggering dps but so can every other class. (I still remember driftwoods 20k dps moment on spider trash!)

Maybe Titans grip does need a nerf, but isnt 10% overdoing it a little?

I know as much about titan's grip as i do about fury warriors...not alot.

But i think, if they do anything, perhaps it should be reduction to only a few abilities, i dunno overpower for example, which when proc'd is guaranteed to hit, or cleave...and just leave heroic strike, slam, devastate as they are...but reduce fury spec'd skills only?

I still prefer arms spec personally, my warrior has alot of fun with that

From a personal point of view i find it very difficult to comment as the only data i have to go on is the numbers i see in the 10/25 man raids that i attend, which in context of 11million players is pretty tiny

One comment i would make is slightly off-topic but concerns the difference between hybrid and pure dps classes. I have always been a firm believer that the pure dps classes should have an advantage over similar geared/skilled hybrids.

Especially with the introduction of dual-specs it makes it even harder to justify playing a pure dps class. So if they are going to nerf the rage machines / nerf those droods too :-p

That is a very good point.

Hunters, rogues and warlocks should get increases to dmg.

The only reason Mages shouldn't is they offer the best CC and group buffs out of all the DPS specialists...rogues cant buff directly, for e.g

And damage output on hybrid DPS should indeed be lower, especially with the Dual Spec, i mean what does a Hunter do with dual spec? Apart from say survival for PvP or BM/marks for raiding...not like they can tank or heal instead?!

are you saying that because i am a warrior i should only be allowed to tank? and if i dont want to tank i should have vertually no use in a raid?

I'm sorry but i dont really see your point. Pure dps classes have something to bring to a raid in the form of buffs, cc, and other raid utility. Even when dual specs comes out those atributes will still be needed in a raid. All dual specs means is that the essential people you have to bring to every raid wont be sat on their arses twiddling their thunmbs on a boss where only 1 tank is needed or only 5 healers instead of 7 etc.

IMHO, dual spec is not going to change the way WE raid at all. We are still going to have the same people attending, it just means that kalandor can switch to a tree when needed!.

If you look at warriors, what raid utility do they bring? battle shout is overwritten by blessing of might, commanding shout is likely to be done by a prot warrior, rampage is overwritten by a druid buff, that just leaves... oh, nothing.

If a fury warrior is to have any place in a raid he needs to be out dpssing the more utility driven classes otherwise whats the point of bringing him?

I dont think the issue is about a hybrid being prefered in a raid over a pure class. As a raid leader i would not specifically choose a hybrid over a pure class. Out of 10 raid spots you need 2 tanks 3 healers and 5 dps (on average), taking extra hybrid classes just because they can change to a different spec wont do the raid any extra benefit, it would just mean you lose some of the 'Pure' buffs. All dual specs means to me is that the OT, if not required for a specific boss, could swap to dps for sapphiron or heigan. (That and it would save me a fortune in respeccing to tank when tanks are short)

I think every class needs a reason to be brought to a raid. Be it a gift of the wild buff, a summoning portal and healthstones, free food, traps and tranquilizing shot, poisons, horn of winter, etc etc. At the moment fury warriors only have their awesome dps to bring. If this is taken away from us what do we have left?

Cannonblast

btw, contrary to what alot of people think, warlocks and hunters have as much utility in a raid as mages. (aspects, especially aspect of the wild, traps of all sorts, misdirect, various shots used to debuff, trueshot aura, healthstones, curses that up dps, soul stones, summoning portal, detect invisibility, various pets with various buffs, banish, enslave, seduce) Rogues not as much but certainly no less than a fury warrior.

And why do mages have the best cc? polymorph? works on humanoids and beasts only? yes it is sustainable but so is banish and enslave end they cannot be broken by damage! buffs? AI? nice for casters. food and a portal home. Thats the real reason!!

I think the issue is not what classes are supposed to do Cannon, but what is generally expected.

I bet you can login to LFG and how many times in 5 mins would you get asked to tank?

Its a stereotype, before paladins tanked effectively, all i got asked to do was heal, fortunately thats exactly what i did, but due to so many DPS classes, or DPS players compared to tanks and healers, it becomes far to difficult to get a group these days as a DPS.

I think what i was saying is that if a class cannot do anything BUT DPS then they should be able to do more, because then hopefully they will get more groups, instead of a 5-man consisting of nothing but druids, or paladins. I say this from my Hunters perspective, because i get no action with him anymore...why else do you think i chose to level Enrico first? We have DPS coming out of everywhere, and if i wanted to take part in raids, i had to sacrifice my hunter...its a sacrifice i am willing to make, but i would still prefer a fairer choice, instead of, sorry mate, we're oversubscribed with DPS by 10, would you like to tank instead?

I agree with your situation Cannon, but even so, without other tanks to replace you, thats what you would be doing too, because thats just the way it is, you're a great tank, and people know what they're getting, which increases the effectiveness of the raid, and importantly the success, instead of me tanking with my current gear, losing aggro, or health, or both, and its wipe after wipe.....so perhaps its more a case of what classes and the player is really good at, compared to the alternative spec...warriors tank better than they DPS most likely, as they are able to wear plate with huge armor attributes.

In a cruel way, Blizzard set the standard in the beginning, and now warriors fancy TG and DPS spec, the label "tank" will forever be associated with warriors, primarily.

Warhammer online, does things simpler, Black orcs are the tanks, and they do not DPS, they dont have different specs that make much difference, they just have different debuffs, or self buffs, but essentially all they can do is tank, and there are other classes specifically for DPS and healing.

Yep - if your not tanking you should stand around picking your nose!!

hehe only joking, i didnt mean to say that all hybrid classes should produce poor dps and be pigeon holed into the role of tanking or healing but i do believe in the current game climate pure dps classes need more of an incentive to make up for the lack of versitility / choice that hybrids have - other than buffs (or as you say: table at the beginning - portal home)

Im not talking ridiculous dps that make all other classes less valued but somewhere in the region of 10% difference between similar geared / skilled hybrids and pure classes. (i believe that Blizzard have previously stated this is the kind of difference they are looking to achieve and i agree).

Obviously the main factor should and hopefully always will be skill (and to an extent gear) so that all classes have the potential to bring the pain! if played and geared correctly to do so

I geuss part of the problem is the constant changes. I was just about getting happy with what i was doing and how much damage i could do. I am gemmed, enchanted and glyphed to maximise what i can do, and now it looks like i may caompletely change specs again as it sounds like arms will be a better damage spec.

Expensive time for me coming up

The amount of time you change specs between tanking and dps if the cost of 1000g stays for dual specs - it will be a bargain for you

If you need Glyphs give Shyne a shout - im at 450 skill and have the majority of em discovered

Well, last night i respecced back to arms to do alittle testing. Ofc, it wont be a real test until i can get into a full raid but it looks like arms is not far behind fury for dps atm, so when the gimp fury and buff arms in 3.1 i think you will be hard pressed to find a fury warrior about as arms will most likely overtake fury as the #1 dps spec for damage. (is also slightly more useful in raids). Time will tell i guess.

Will update more once i have tested in a raid

Well i had a brief chance to test out my DPS in 10 man naxx the other night, and i have to say that Arms is now far better than fury for dps on bosses. Trash is very hit and miss (forgive the pun) as DPS figures for trash all depends if bladestorm is off cooldown. But we dont care about trash... Bosses is where it counts! Which is what leads me to say that unless they change it drastically, Fury is dead.

My Warrior is arms, and bladestorm is the cream of the moves for certain! really love that in pvp, you can see the dps rack up in pve and pvp alike with this spec, with dots for long encounters and burst for short...could even say they are close to paladins with comparitive gear/level....healing aside.